<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">No No NO. This is why the CPL
and not the GPL. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">You can even sell CPL'd code under an
amazingly restrictive license if you want -- even licensed by machine.
However, you must include the disclaimers and you must indicate where
to obtain the source code.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
Alan King<br>
Math Sciences<br>
IBM Thomas J Watson Research Center<br>
914-945-1236<br>
http://www.research.ibm.com/people/k/kingaj/</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<td width=40%><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>Soeren Sonnenburg <Soeren.Sonnenburg@first.fraunhofer.de></b>
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<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">04/11/2008 02:21 PM</font>
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<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Leo Lopes <leo@sie.arizona.edu></font>
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<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Ted Ralphs <ted@lehigh.edu>, Alan
King/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, coin-discuss@list.coin-or.org</font>
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<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: [Coin-discuss] COIN-OR licences
again...</font></table>
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<br><tt><font size=2>On Fri, 2008-04-11 at 11:18 -0700, Leo Lopes wrote:<br>
> Correct me if I am wrong: it is the "(and redistribute)"
that adds the<br>
> complicating wrinkle.<br>
<br>
Of course, you can combine what ever software with whatever software for<br>
just your personal use... (well almost). But as soon as you want to<br>
share it with others (and/or modify it) the problems arise.<br>
<br>
Soeren.<br>
<br>
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Soeren Sonnenburg<br>
> <Soeren.Sonnenburg@first.fraunhofer.de> wrote:<br>
> > Indeed, there must be some misunderstanding. I am bringing up
this<br>
> > discussion because the only ways to combine (and redistribute)
GPL'd and<br>
> > CPL'd code is to<br>
> ><br>
> > a) get the copyright holders of the GPL'd code to add
an explicit<br>
> > exception that it is OK to link with the project using
CPL'd code<br>
> ><br>
> > and<br>
> ><br>
> > b) get the copyright holders of the CPL'd code to dual
license to a GPL<br>
> > compatible license<br>
> ><br>
> > Soeren<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Fri, 2008-04-11 at 13:14 -0400, Ted Ralphs wrote:<br>
> > > Somewhere, there's a misunderstanding. Are you saying
that anyone can<br>
> > > redistribute CPL'd software under the GPL? This is
not true. Only the<br>
> > > copyright holders can change the license. In source
code form, you can<br>
> > > distribute a combination of GPL'd and CPL'd code,
but the CPL'd code<br>
> > > remains under the CPL. You cannot distribute binaries
derived from<br>
> > > combinations of the two. The CPL would allow this,
but the GPL does not.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Cheers,<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Ted<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Alan King wrote:<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > CPL does not prevent anyone from bundling all
of COIN and distributing<br>
> > > > it under GPL, so long as the disclaimers are
present.<br>
> > > > What is the problem?<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > Alan King<br>
> > > > Math Sciences<br>
> > > > IBM Thomas J Watson Research Center<br>
> > > > 914-945-1236<br>
> > > > http://www.research.ibm.com/people/k/kingaj/<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > *Ted Ralphs <ted@lehigh.edu>*<br>
> > > > Sent by: coin-discuss-bounces@list.coin-or.org<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > 04/11/2008 12:42 PM<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > To<br>
> > > > Soeren Sonnenburg <Soeren.Sonnenburg@first.fraunhofer.de><br>
> > > > cc<br>
> > > > coin-discuss@list.coin-or.org<br>
> > > > Subject<br>
> > > > Re: [Coin-discuss] COIN-OR licences
again...<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > Personal like/dislike of the FSF/GPL are not
at all the reason for the<br>
> > > > improbability of adoption of a dual licensing
scheme for COIN. For<br>
> > > > practical reasons, I personally would probably
agree to dual license the<br>
> > > > software for which I am the copyright holder
if others would follow<br>
> > > > suit. As far as the reasons why it is unlikely
that other copyright<br>
> > > > holders would do this, I can only speculate,
as many others have already<br>
> > > > done in this thread and others. Ultimately, someone
within the<br>
> > > > organizations holding the copyrights has to champion
this cause and even<br>
> > > > then, I would say the chances are very slim.
As several have pointed<br>
> > > > out, if the GPL were an acceptable alternative
to the parties concerned,<br>
> > > > why would the CPL exist in the first place? Food
for thought...<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > Cheers,<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > Ted<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > Soeren Sonnenburg wrote:<br>
> > > >> On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 11:31 -0400, Ted Ralphs
wrote:<br>
> > > >><br>
> > > >> Ted,<br>
> > > >><br>
> > > >>> As a point of information relevant to
this thread, there is an effort<br>
> > > >>> underway by members of the Technical
Leadership Council and others to<br>
> > > >>> develop a set of RPM's and .debs for
Linux that will include the vast<br>
> > > >>> majority of the projects. Of course,
we will not be able to link with<br>
> > > >>> any third-party libraries that are GPL'd,
but nevertheless, we have been<br>
> > > >>> able to build distributable binaries
of most of the projects. I don't<br>
> > > >>> think the fact that the binaries will
be under the CPL should impact<br>
> > > >>> most users that much, though clearly
the license conflict is less than<br>
> > > >>> ideal. Stay tuned for more details.<br>
> > > >><br>
> > > >> I agree, for pure users it does not matter,
as they won't mess with the<br>
> > > >> code. In the case of COIN-OR it is different
though, as it is made for<br>
> > > >> developers who like to use and extend the
code...<br>
> > > >><br>
> > > >>> As for the dual licensing idea, that
has been discussed on and off for a<br>
> > > >>> long time and there is very little chance
of it happening. However, we<br>
> > > >><br>
> > > >> Could you give a reason why this is unlikely?
That it has been discussed<br>
> > > >> a couple of times just underlines that there
is a need to change<br>
> > > >> things...<br>
> > > >><br>
> > > >>> will keep the conversation going. To
date, there has not been universal<br>
> > > >>> agreement in the legal community that
the clauses in the GPL that forbid<br>
> > > >>> dynamic linking are enforceable, but
for now, we are not in a position<br>
> > > >>> to test those waters. Hopefully, someone
will do so at some point and we<br>
> > > >>> will have a legitimate and dispassionate
legal interpretation rather<br>
> > > >>> than the FSFs self-interested one.<br>
> > > >><br>
> > > >> I would not want this to end up in a discussion
whether the GPL valid,<br>
> > > >> good or bad. Lets simply accept (or tolerate)
the FSF's position here<br>
> > > >> and find a solution with which everyone,
IBM, COIN-OR developers and<br>
> > > >> (potential) COIN-OR users are happy.<br>
> > > >><br>
> > > >>> One can argue that encouraging wider<br>
> > > >>> use of the GPL is not actually good for
open source, but it is a<br>
> > > >>> practical reality that much of the world's
OS software is GPL'd, so that<br>
> > > >>> is the reality we have to deal with.
Thanks for your support!<br>
> > > >><br>
> > > >> Well that does not really sound dispassionate.
If the reason why dual<br>
> > > >> licensing is not an option is that there
is a strong dislike against<br>
> > > >> any GPL compatible license from the people
in charge here, then nothing<br>
> > > >> will change. If the aim is to see coin-or
projects widely used however<br>
> > > >> it is important to consider dual licensing
with another more compatible<br>
> > > >> license. As I guess the goal for IBM to open
sourcing this project was<br>
> > > >> so see it widely used and extended I would
hope that a solution can be<br>
> > > >> found.<br>
> > > >><br>
> > > >> Best,<br>
> > > >> Soeren<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > --<br>
> > > > Dr. Ted Ralphs<br>
> > > > Associate Professor<br>
> > > > Industrial and Systems Engineering<br>
> > > > Lehigh University<br>
> > > > (610)758-4784<br>
> > > > ted 'at' lehigh 'dot' edu<br>
> > > > coral.ie.lehigh.edu/~ted<br>
> > > > _______________________________________________<br>
> > > > Coin-discuss mailing list<br>
> > > > Coin-discuss@list.coin-or.org<br>
> > > > http://list.coin-or.org/mailman/listinfo/coin-discuss<br>
> > > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > --<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Soeren Sonnenburg - Fraunhofer FIRST Tel:
+49 (30) 6392 1882<br>
> > Kekulestr. 7, 12489 Berlin, Germany
Fax: +49 (30) 6392 1805<br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Coin-discuss mailing list<br>
> > Coin-discuss@list.coin-or.org<br>
> > http://list.coin-or.org/mailman/listinfo/coin-discuss<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
-- <br>
Soeren Sonnenburg - Fraunhofer FIRST Tel: +49 (30)
6392 1882<br>
Kekulestr. 7, 12489 Berlin, Germany Fax: +49 (30)
6392 1805<br>
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